Dear United Methodist Church, What If You’re Wrong?

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(Photo: Sid Hastings/AP)

You did it.

You voted them out.

Not just gay marriage and queer pastors.

The entire LGBTQ community.

Closed hearts, closed minds, closed doors.

Your message is loud and clear.

Maybe you did it because, at the end of the day, your best guess is that being an LGTBQ person is a sin, whether it be in practice, orientation, or gender. Perhaps you have studied the issues, or mostly assimilated the beliefs heard from others. Your familiarity with some or all of the passages in the Bible that seem to specifically address human sexuality lead you to interpret them as likely condemnations against the LGBTQ community and probable proof that God declares it all as deviant.

And so, though perhaps with a bit of uncertainty, you did it.

You voted them out.

The entire LGBTQ community.

Or maybe, it’s because you have adopted a posture that concludes the most faithful response to these “complicated” issues is to, “hate the sin and love the sinner.” It feels so spiritual and gracious to you. In fact, in your mind, the LGBTQ community isn’t necessarily better or worse than you, just different in their disobedience. If you had your own way in church, family, or community they may even be welcomed. But, at the end of the day, their being a LGBTQ person is still deemed to be a sin-problem nonetheless. Jesus died for “them,” just like He died for you.

Therefore, when push came to shove, you did it.

You voted them out.

The entire LGBTQ community.

On the other hand, maybe you hate the LGBTQ community and have no restraint in saying so with all the lingual colors afforded you. Confident in your biblical grooming, you may even assert that being LGBTQ is a special kind of sin, more sinful than any other. To you, all persons in the LGBTQ community are self-declared exclusively by choice. They are at best, a deplorable kind of abomination in your sight, and less than qualify for any kind of harbor, inclusion, or acceptance in your denomination. With your Bible in hand, and perhaps a picket sign or two, you declare in either speech or action, “God hates fags” and therefore, deep down, at some level or another, so do you.

Well, wherever you are on the spectrum of response, at the end of the day, you did it.

You voted them out.

Not just gay marriage and queer pastors.

The entire LGBTQ community.

Closed hearts, closed minds, closed doors.

Your message is loud and clear.

When it’s all is said and done. in your judgement, being an LGBTQ person is never acceptable to God nor is it ever His will or design. Therefore, “repentance” is ultimately the only answer, whether empowered by Grace or Law or some mixture thereof… change, confess, move away from sin, apply the power of Jesus to overcome, turn or burn—however you want to put it. For you, that’s the answer, that’s the cure. Until then, there is still a “problem,” an “issue,” an “abnormality,” a “sin.” Most of all, until then, by your clear and decisive vote… they’re out.

The entire LGBTQ community.

Closed hearts, closed minds, closed doors.

Your message is loud and clear.

Now, I hope you will consider mine.

Because, I have a question for you… what if you’re wrong?

I know, it’s all so clear to you. The biblical texts, the studies, the nature of it all.

But, what if you’re wrong?

What if it’s not so clear, the studies not so definitive, the unnatural not so unnatural.

What if you’re wrong, like Peter in Scripture, who actually believed it was “unnatural” for the Gentiles to accept Christ and be included in the fellowship of believers? By the way, you know who the Gentiles are?  You are, United Methodist Church.

What if you’re wrong, like countless Christians throughout history who read your same Bible and vehemently concluded its support for racism and slavery?

What if you’re wrong, like court reporters and clerks in the 1960’s who, citing Biblical grounds, refused to document and issue interracial marriage certificates because they believed them to be committing sin?

What if you are wrong, like the Southern Baptist denomination, who finally in 1995, apologized to the black community for its role in using the Bible to endorse racism and slavery?

What if you are wrong, like the Pharisees, who believed they knew and lived the Scriptures better than anyone, but were shown-out by Jesus to not only be in biblical error, but completing absent of understanding in regards to His heart and essence?

I mean, just imagine if Hitler had only considered, “maybe I am wrong about the Jews.”

Imagine if the theologian John Calvin had only considered, “maybe I didn’t read this text right” before brutally burning one of his critics to death, all in the name of biblical faithfulness, mind you.

Imagine, just imagine.

Now just imagine, if you’re wrong about people who are LGBTQ.

What if ignorance has eclipsed your understanding, not unlike the kind Hosea spoke of as the prime destroyer of people?

What if mistranslation, proof texting, and a lack of proper contextualization has rendered the Scripture as saying that which God never meant it to?

What if your unyielding grip on inerrancy has become in fact, your own spiritual death hold?

What if your fear of being wrong and therefore having to deconstruct and rebuild one’s heart, mind, faith, and denomination is preventing you from the guidance of the Spirit?

What if peer pressure, purse strings, and the gravity to conform to the prevailing Christian “norm” is squelching the wind of Jesus from His revelation in and transformation of your Church?

What if being an LGBTQ person isn’t a sin after all, and now you don’t have a “sin” that you are confident can never and will never apply to you from which to comfortably condemn others and drink from the intoxicating chalice of self-righteousness that medicates your own inner shame, insecurity, condemnation, and guilt?

What if, like your heterosexuality, being LGBTQ is not a choice, any more than the color of your eyes and skin?

What if… you’re wrong?

As for me, I didn’t become an LGBTQ affirming pastor out of some issue of “grace” or pretentious religious tolerance. Instead, it was being confronted and collided with divine truth that paddle-shocked my heart and brought true life to my mind and soul—nothing less than a spiritual enema from the throne of God straight into the pungent bowels of my conservative Evangelical poop chute.

Grace is for sin, brokenness, and that which is incomplete and lacking.

People of the LGBTQ community are far from being broken, inferior, or inherent vessels of depravity simply because of their sexuality and honest existence. Rather, they are nothing less than all that is beautiful and holy—a sacred thread in the tapestry of God’s awe-inspiring creation.

They are not a mistake that needs correction, a question that needs answering, a blemish that needs erasing, a problem that needs fixing, a sin that needs repentance, an illness that needs reparative therapy, or an issue that needs your voting.

In fact, truth be told, many are a far better example than most Christians of what it looks like to be divinely human and in concert with the heart and mind of Jesus.

Make no mistake, people of the LGBTQ community are no less human, divinely affirmed, intentionally created, and unequivocally equal than any other.

We are them, they are us. All together, human.

If I am wrong, the Holy Spirit will simply pursue me with correction, go around and ahead me to thwart the misleading, and work in the lives of the LGBTQ community to lead them to, “repentance.”

However, if you’re wrong…

You have condemned, marginalized, persecuted, and falsely judged an entire group of God-imaged people.

You have labeled as sin, that which is not.

You have put barbed-wire fences where God meant for tables.

You have now become a contributor to the depression, the isolation, the terror, the suicide, and the living hell of countless people.

You have participated in nothing less than the new racism of the 21st Century.

And worst of all, you have joined the choir of the False Accuser, singing songs of pure evil, believing them to be hymns of the Savior that reflect His heart and bidding.

Indeed, you have partnered with Satan in the stealing, killing, and destroying of an entire population of God’s beloved children.

All, in the name of Jesus and biblical faithfulness.

Honestly, I am o.k. if somehow it turns out I’m wrong.

My question for you, United Methodist Church, is simply this, how can you ever be o.k. with the sure possibility… you are.

 

Grace is brave. Be brave.

 

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42 Comments

  1. Chris,
    Thank you for this. Thank you for saying in no uncertain terms, what my heart needs to hear.
    Thank you for your grace and your bravery. Thank you for your faith.
    Peace,
    Paul

  2. Thank you, Chris! I am so glad I have you as a friend. <3

    Many hearts are broken right now in the Methodist church, mine included. Do we stay or do we go? Either option is understandable. As a Bisexual woman who is now married to a man, I could have remained silent. They never had to know… I could have "passed" as a few light-skinned African Americans did during segregation. I watched the whole General Conference from home and grieved and cried with my brothers and sisters. I wept with them as that ugly % of hatred displayed on the screen in front of me. I shouted with them as they were asked to participate in the closing worship as their hearts were ripped bleeding from their chests.

    Instead, I sang with them as they were almost forcibly removed from the arena with police lights glaring out front. I heard as they were told to go collect their belongings and exit the building or face arrest. I posted and responded to posts and messages from my brothers and sisters. I watched countless live streams, Lamentations, and Lync Worship this morning.

    I could have remained silent, but I didn't. I have done nothing to be ashamed of and neither have the many in this denomination who have lived their lives in the shadows. Don't ask, don't tell….

    Instead, I outed myself to my congregation last night via Facebook Messenger. I can NOT remain silent! These are the children of the body of Christ! I am a child of the body of Christ. We have a place at the table. We are BELOVED.

    I am still debating if I will stay and fight for the church I love and all of the young people who are watching us from the shadows looking for a ray of light desperately right now or if I will leave and fight to create something new built entirely from a love from Christ that will shine like a beacon to them.

    The point is I refuse to live in the shadows anymore at 46 years-old! I call on my brothers and sister in the UMC that are in the shadows to step out into the light. Yes, it is scary, but there are young people who desperately need hope right now and it is up to us to show them that we are Christ's Beloved and that we have done NOTHING to be ashamed of! Give them hope!

    Grace is brave. Be brave.

    I love you all Beloveds! <3

    Patti Haney
    BUMC
    Bogata, Texas

    • ckratzer

      February 28, 2019 at 11:49 am

      Patti, I inspired by your bravery! Wow! Thanks for reading and sharing such a powerful expression of your heart.

    • I have twice visited in worship at the Bogata UMC, and was warmly greeted. I have wondered if I would have been so warmly welcomed if it was known that I was gay. I like to think so.

    • Oh, Patti, what a brave and beautiful witness you have been. God bless you. I’m sorry we did not see this coming. May these words, just tweeted today, help.

      A tweet from Gene Robinson, I believe the first gay bishop in the Episcopal church:

      My dear #LGBTQ Methodist friends/allies: Don’t threaten to LEAVE! Threaten to STAY!! It’s YOUR CHURCH TOO! Stay, live your ministries the way God wants, until they realize they can’t punish ALL of you! If THEY want to leave, so be it. But don’t YOU leave your beloved Church!

  3. Galatians 5:21 identifies envy as a sin that will keep someone from inheriting the kingdom. Vote out the envious?
    Same verse identifies drunkedness as such a sin. Vote out drunkards?
    Ephesians 5:5 says covetousness. Vote them out?
    1 Timothy 1:10 says liars. Vote them out?
    1 Corinthians 6:9-10 says adulterers. Vote them out?
    Same verses say the greedy. Vote them out?

    Next General Conference will be held in a Yugo. All remaining are invited to attend.

    • ckratzer

      February 28, 2019 at 11:48 am

      Steve, where I think I understand your point, and would add that LGBTQ is not comparable to the list of sins you describe as being LGBTQ is not a sin. Thanks for reading and commenting!

  4. Dear Chris,
    As a man who affirmed my homosexuality more than fifty years ago, I continue to grow weary and angry because of people who have taken it upon themselves to determine or discern in their minds what is “normal” or “natural”. The pain and suffering caused by these troglodytes is beyond the pale. And, it is not of Christ.

    For years I have referred to gays and lesbians as “God’s other Angels”. We bring so much to the landscape of life: creativity, free spirits, love, commitment, abundance of joy; and, yes, abundance of sorrow. I refuse to allow “them” to shame us or to make us feel that we are less in the eyes of God. It is these Methodists, the evangelicals, the fundamentalists and the Pentecostals who have opened the door wide for Satan. Yes, Satan. The evil those groups have inserted into the faith is cancerous; not dissimilar to the evil we see in our current day politics.

    When I came to terms with my homosexuality in the summer of 1968, I knew the risks. But I also knew that I would NOT pretend to be “straight”, marry and at some level be phony as a husband and perhaps a father. I have had friends who did that, and they expressed to me their considerable sorrow over having living a lie which ultimately became their truth. Our sexual orientation is who we are at our core.

    I studied theology for my graduate degree; psychology and sexuality as an adjunct to both my theology degree and the business degree before that. Years ago I purchased a book by Wainwright Churchill, at the time a noted psychology. In his book he concludes that the biggest damage and harm to human sexuality has been done by religion.

  5. I won’t pretend to fully understand the hurt the vote by the United Methodist church (UMC) cast yesterday on the issue of human sexuality made, but one thing should be made clear…. this was not a unanimous vote against the LGBTQ community. Indeed it was a bare majority. Yet it was a majority non-the-less and noteworthy if one fully understands the context of the UMC as a global church body.

    It is reflective of our process of representation which truthfully is imperfect. It is indeed a picture of “biblical literalism” at it’s worst perhaps, but yet signals how much grace is needed here.

    I appreciate your question “(But) What if you’re wrong?”. I do think this was a wrong decision and hold out hope that there will rise from this a better conversation and indeed a resolution for the UMC. At the very least it should call into question who the mission of the UMC is speaking to. Are these “making disciples of Jesus Christ for the transformation of the world” pointed toward those outside the church or does it include working on those inside to realize the rule made 47 years ago (1972) means we need to grow our own faith?

  6. While the Pharisees were arguing over the fine points of the Law, Jesus was hanging with and speaking love to the marginalized and vulnerable ones. While the UMC was hashing out the fine points of exclusion, Jesus was loving on the LGBTQ community. You are a constant healing salve to the victims of selfrighteous legalism and condemnation. Love you, Chris!

    • Superbly stated! When Jesus went with the Centurion to heal the Centurion’s “slave” it was clear, even in text, the “slave” was the Centurion’s male lover. In the Gospel of Matthew, 19, Jesus remarks, “Not all men are called to marry. Some men are born as eunuchs from their mothers’ wombs.” (I realize I have combined a couple lines from the Gospel.) Eunuchs as a rule are made so by man. Nearly forty years ago The Reverend Dr. Edward Bauman of Foundry United Methodist Church (interesting that it was Methodist!) wrote a superb pamphlet on the eunuch except, suggesting this was Jesus’ witness to homosexuals. The pamphlet is, “Reflections on the gay life.” I still have my copy.

      It has been long believed that sins of the flesh (of which there are many) pale in comparison to sins of the spirit. For what it is worth, I have never felt wrong about my homosexuality or that I am “going against God”.

      • Cheryel Lemley-McRoy

        February 28, 2019 at 4:22 pm

        Just to add to your comment, if I may, Roman inheritance laws from the first century differentiate between man made eunuchs and born eunuchs. Most scholars believe born eunuch was the term for the LGBTQ community at that time. Eunuch was an umbrella word for anyone not expected to procreate, including barren women.

        • Point well-made! I often have wondered how many homosexuals/eunuchs were followers of Jesus of Nazareth. He certainly was not (could not have been) naive about that. Frankly, I really, really WISH people would get off this anti-gay “kick” and focus on what really matters. Some of Trump’s religious supporters have actually promoted exterminating homosexuals (has Hitler been resurrected?). I am appalled. Do they actually believe that there will not be another generation of homosexuals born? Those people are the spawn of Satan, the real anti-Christs.

          • Cheryel Lemley-McRoy

            March 1, 2019 at 8:51 pm

            Well, it’s been estimated that 10 – 15% of the population is gay, although that figure may increase as people feel empowered to declare themselves.
            But even if only 1% of the population is born gay, then that would mean that out of the thousands that Jesus ministered to in his lifetime, there had to be among them many LGBTQ people.

        • The thread was running bare, so I will do it this way!

          Your 10% to 15% estimate would scare right wingers to jump off the face of the earth! I joke that when we are not their worry, we are only 3%. When we become their worry, suddenly we are 10%!

          What DOES concern me gravely is how certain pastors in Trump’ s fold are actually recommending a “kill the queers” agenda. Of course, Mike the Closet Queen Pence is all for that one. There are days when I believe LGBTQ life was so much “easier” when the wider world knew far less about us.

  7. Well said. Thank you. I find this almost unbelievable. The only good that I see coming from this… is that perhaps it’s out in the open… Mold cannot be dealt with if it’s hidden in the wall. I left the Methodist Church 20 years ago. Love and acceptance were the teachings of Jesus.

  8. It may not be a choice, like ones skin colour or the colour of ones eyes, but whether or not you choose to act on it and continue down a certain path is a choice!. Men and women are brought together by God for many reasons, the main reason is to create off spring naturally, continually the generational lines the way God intended, not in test tubes, not with women being paid to have children only to give (sell) them at birth to couples who are for whatever reason unable to conceive, carry and give birth to. The balance of a mother and a father is what is required to give a balanced foundation and stable future to a child, male and female lessons in order to create a balanced understanding for a childs future.

    • So Ruby, where does that leave infertile couples? How about those of us past child bearing years- does that mean we are thrown out of the community of Christ? How about people who choose to not procreate- are they any less loved by their creator

      God made all of His beloved children for many different reasons. Procreation is one but not the only one

      Most of all, he made us to love one another. Christ tells us we should love our neighbor as ourselves. Not our straight neighbor- our neighbor period.

      If you want to follow Christ, you might want to re-examine your belief there

  9. What a wonderful message of love. Love will win out in the end. Thank you.

  10. I just want to pass along a couple of thoughts from my perspective about the homosexuality issue, particularly regarding whether or not it is “natural”.

    Most of the time I have heard or read arguments one or both sides has tried to work the Bible in there, either citing some passage or describing Jesus’ overall perspective about love.

    While acknowledging there may be some legitimate arguments from those perspectives and while also acknowledging I am far from an authority on either, I would like to suggest a different approach.

    I don’t believe the following requires either that one believe that God created us as humans or that we evolved from apelike creatures.

    My thought is to ask someone to look around the world and just observe what we see.

    There are really tall people and really short people, and everything in between. This difference seems to be a “natural” development over time and based on genes, hormones, mutations, etc. that are part of being human animals.

    There are people with really dark skin and others with really light skin, and everything in between. This difference again seems to be due to natural human processes over time.

    I could go on with examples, but once a long list of natural differences is recited, the same question is left at the end: why would we expect sexuality to be the only one of our characteristics not to be subject to these natural human processes over time? Why would we expect anything other than a spectrum of sexuality? There’s my perspective, without any religion involved.

  11. Chris,
    Thank you for a really well written article. One I will be sharing. I have always been amazed the level of homophobia in the UMC. Growing up in East Texas I never heard an anti-gay message ever. In my 20s realizing I was gay, I never had any doubts about being loved by God.

    I surmise that much was kept behind the scenes, in dealing with gay pastors. With the advent of marriage equality, more had to be said from the pulpit. By this time I was attending MCC. But from comments I have since heard from siblings, an anti-gay message was being preached as my Mom believed her eldest was “incompatible with the teachings of Jesus”.

    The UMC harmed my Mom before she went to her Maker.

  12. Hello! My name is Gerry and new to the UMC faith from being born, raised, and baptized in a Roman Catholic teachings. Please enlightened my soul to the situation of the UMC decision about the LGBTQia issue. I have been reading the Bible and I read in the book of Leviticus the issue of homosexuality.

    Can we love without making a sin?

    Can our LGBTQia brothers and sisters in Christ love without committing an “abomination” in the eye of God according to the book of Leviticus pertaining to the homosexuality activity at that time?

    Why not the UMC strike out ALL derogatory or words regarding LGBTQia, then allow our LGBTQia brothers and sisters to hold position in the church, and not allow same sex marriage?

    I apologize for the questions that I have listed, but for an individual like me that is new to the UMC faith, I need to know if I really need to follow what the book of the old testament says, or the new testament, but I believe I should follow both. I remember what Jesus said when asked about the laws ” I came here NOT to abolished the Law, but to fulfill it”.

    • Barry Welliver

      March 1, 2019 at 3:25 am

      Hi Gerry,

      First, welcome to the protestant side of christianity!

      My personal belief/understanding is that with the death and resurrection of Jesus, we are under a new covenant and “released” from the old (Hebrew) covenant. That is not to say that we toss it out as meaningless, but recognize it as you have said as being fulfilled by Jesus’ time here. There are many aspects of the law that are still in effect (Ten Commandments) but the relationship with God has changed.

      I for one think of the difference as before the Holy Spirit, and after. When Jesus left he/God sent the councilor to help us on the next leg of our journey. What this means for me is that we need to live in obedience to the words Christ left us which include love your neighbor/God etc. and look at the principles instead of the rules. Old testament rules were a way God began/advanced his relationship with his people (us). They served their purpose and now we live with a piece of God in our hearts. Hopefully, this is our graduation to a new relationship.

      Finally, you need to know that the recent decisions by the UMC reflect a bare majority of Methodists. There are many in the UMC who live with the understanding that Jesus did not judge first then give mercy/compassion. It indeed is an upside-down Kingdom he introduced.

      Peace and Grace

    • Cheryel Lemley-McRoy

      March 1, 2019 at 9:18 pm

      Gerry, it is wisdom to be sure that we know what the Bible is trying to say in the original language before we form beliefs and dogmas that exclude or condemn.
      In Leviticus, God is preparing His children to move into a land of pagan idol worshipers. He is warning them not to do as the inhabitants do. And pagan fertility worship was the norm. A Ba’al devotee would engage a Ba’al priest in oral or anal sex in order to ensure the fertility of his crops, cattle, servants, and family. In doing so he believed that he became one with Ba’al. Our God is a jealous god that will not share His people with other gods.
      We need to be careful with the word abomination. There are three Hebrew words all translated abomination. They are piggul, touching excrement or anything diseased, dead or decaying thing. Shiketz is the laws of kosher foods. And to’evah is the ultimate abomination. It is anything that separates you from God, and is largely applied to idol worship. The abomination listed in Leviticus 18: 22 and 20: 13 are to’evah. So we can be fairly certain that those verses are referring to Ba’al worship. I hope this helps.

  13. I am United Methodist and I have mixed emotions but I refuse to hate anyone or label myself as someone like the Westboro Baptist as it insenuating. SHAME on this author for saying so, not all Methodists are the same. To stereotype them is ludicrous and repulsive.

    • ckratzer

      March 1, 2019 at 8:47 pm

      Debbie, I trust that my readers will have the common sense to know that this article is clearly directed at those with the methodist church who voted and support the vote to ban same sex marriage and LGBTQ pastors. You can deflect the truth of this article by calling foul, but your doing so to the glaring reveal of your own personal shame.

  14. I am a straight woman. For as long as I can remember, I have loved being female. Once I became a teen, I was crazy about teen boys. And when I grew up, I was attracted to men. It felt right, it felt “normal” – I could not imagine my life any other way. One day I realized how this works out for me in terms of society’s “norms”. BUT- What if I felt exactly how I do now but I lived in a male body? Or, what if I felt like I was a man, trapped inside a body that didn’t feel like it belonged to me? What if I loved being a women and I truly was in love with another woman? What if I was attracted to both men and women? Or??? I don’t know everything but I know this – I cannot change how I feel. This is who I am. And, guess what? I don’t think LBGTQ people can change how they feel either. It would never feel okay to try and be a person you aren’t meant to be. Exactly how do you change something that is part of your very existence? God is our creator and the part of our very soul that tells us if we are male or female and determines whether we are physically attracted to females/males ~~ that part, God created. And God doesn’t make mistakes. I am so very sad that the United Methodist Church has chosen to ignore the gifts that LBGTQ people bring to this world. I am sorry that so many churches can’t see the beauty in ALL GOD’S creations. The church has no right to Judge people in this way. By their most recent actions, the Methodists may as well just make a sign that says LBGTQ are not Welcome here – because how do you feel welcome if the rules that apply to some people don’t apply to you? Please know this— I believe that God loves you exactly as you are. I don’t know everything but I know that if God exists then He/She loves us all. And I know there are other “straight” people, Christian people who feel the way I do. Hope, Love & Peace to all.

  15. What if God created us gays to show you beauty. Why do you hate? God is love, beauty, understanding and community. Love your neighbor as I have loved You. I do not feel the love from my UMC brothers and sisters. I do feel love from my UCC. Brothers and Sisters. Question: does sexual orientation matter. I don’t think so. Love others as I have loved you. This should not be about not hate. This is about equality and love.

  16. David Ristuccia

    March 1, 2019 at 3:32 pm

    “If I am wrong, the Holy Spirit will simply pursue me with correction, go around and ahead me to thwart the misleading, and work in the lives of the LGBTQ community to lead them to, “repentance.””

    You mean like it did with this vote?

    • ckratzer

      March 1, 2019 at 8:51 pm

      David, does your comment mean to say that you voted for being against gay marriage and lgbtq pastors and now you regret it?

  17. Thanks for your affirming words.

    As others have pointed out just one of the “Thou Shall Not’s” has been singled out for severe punishment. Even the one on the side lines holding the coats ones who throws stones.

    The vindictive style of the Traditional Plan [much of which has been ruled unconstitutional by the Judicial Council] intends to punish those who open their arms to embrace the accursed community.

    Scriptural holiness has never been word for word. Using Leviticus 18:23 as your standard, why not include Leviticus 19:19, “19 You shall keep my statutes. You shall not let your animals breed with a different kind; you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed; nor shall you put on a garment made of two different materials.”

    There must be more than 100 of these prohibitions. Why not amend the Traditional Plan? Surely the folly would become obvious.

    Blessings

  18. it was a global conference influenced strongly by the African churches. My church did everything they could to influence the vote to be the opposite of what happened. Globally we lost a vote. Locally my church is stil open hearts,open minds, open doors and we prove it by our actions. We will keep loving and showing those who voted against that their path is leading to darkness and not the sunlight of the spirit. And, this isnt over yet.

    • ckratzer

      March 1, 2019 at 8:50 pm

      Linda, hear the call of Jesus, “take up your resistance and follow me” Stay brave!

    • Thank God for this. It offers hope.

    • No it is not over yet. I am fortunate to have a friend who was on the focus committee prior to this Called General Conference. She has posted to us on FB to not give up. There will be another General Conference in 2020, and it is possible the Judicial Council will declare the outcome of last week to be unconstitutional within the UMC, which will set things up for a repeat at the 2020 Conference. Meanwhile, my close friends in my congregation are discussing ‘what do we do now’ and I know we will have group discussions together. Our congregation is having a meeting tomorrow afternoon to discuss this ruling – our Senior Minister was a delegate.
      At this point many things can happen – one of which is a schism. I have come to the point that schism seems necessary and advisable. (The Lutheran, Episcopal, and Presbyterian churches have already experienced this.) It is entirely possible that the 2020 General Conference will be the final blow.

  19. Or maybe it’s just that the LGBT community must have it all or nothing. I was having a conversation with the angel Gabriel one day and he said to me that there are a small fraction of people born attracted t the same sex. He also went on to say that there are people that are born blind, deaf and mentally handicapped, but they do not celebrate the disability, they celebrate overcoming it. During that very same mediation session, Gabriel, along with Khamael who is the female angel of Truth, told me that a minute number of people who are born attracted to the same sex will get passes at the Judgment because they truly cannot help their legitimate attraction to the same sex because it is a genetic defect (too many or not enough of certain chromosomes).

    If you understood the reasons that YodHeVavHe have put rules down and place, then there would be no argument, but LGBT folks are not open to their reasons and they believe that they should be free to as thou wilt, and they are, but there side effects, especially living in this prophetic time period. I became so disgusted with the Christian hypocrisy that I started living amongst the Pagan community while still maintaining my belief and worship of one Being and acknowledging the Master who came and redeemed the humans. The LGBT folks dominate the Pagan community, and, well, that’s because their practices are Pagan (do as thou wilt). While I was a member of the Pagan community, I can’t tell you how many lesbians that fell head over heels over me, and vice-versa.

    Not the lipstick or butch lesbians, mind you, but the naturally beautiful lesbians who don’t wear makeup or feel the need to primp up their (or paint their nails, or shave their pubic regions). As is with the Pagans, the gathering can turn into a party, which degenerates into an alcohol-fueled orgy. I can’t how many lesbians I had intimate relations with during that period, but they were absolutely exquisite. After a while, there were lesbian couples who were willing to have a three-way relationship (two females for one guy, or one guy for two females). However, I knew better than to even think such a thing because I know the nature of both lesbians and bisexual women. When a bi-sexual woman gets mad at the female, she goes to the male, and when she’s made at the male, she goes to the female which causes all sorts of craft filled drama for all involved. The lesbians, on the other hand, would become disenchanted whenever I would do something that is perfectly normal for a man (like not let a woman push him around like a simp). As soon as this would happen, the lesbians would resort to the old “see this is how men are”. Once again, all or nothing from the LGBT community.

    Then there were the gay guys who would come out butt naked at those pagan gatherings and bend over in front of me and would nearly vomit. The gay guys would get jealous because I adored the lesbians, but had no desire what so ever to experience gay sex or intimacy. Nothing personal, it’s just I’m str8 with no queer eye whatsoever (not to mention I was molested when I was younger), The gay dudes were hilarious and we always had fun, but they always wanted to cross the line, which just wasn’t going to happen. I tell people all the time that there are absolutely gorgeous transgender females, but as long as they have the same junk as I do, and we can’t have children of our own, it’s not going to happen, but that’s not enough for the LGBT community, so they continue to push the issue when I’ve given them as much as their going to get, and that’s a lot coming from a conservative spiritual, not religious, practitioner.

    I’ve often sat around with conservative gay dudes who become absolutely disgusted during Pride Parade weekend because they feel that the people who represent them in those parades are actually misrepresenting them. I mean, come on. Who wants to see two men french kissing on a float wearing diapers and dildos? I don’t want to see anyone french kissing in public. The same goes for family-oriented water theme parks. Only some Babylonian Thot is going to walk around a family oriented water theme park with a thong bikini and pubes blasting out. Then the Thot gets mad when the wives and mothers start tripping because they don’t want their sons and husbands mislead. Oh, that’s right. The feminist practice is to blame the mand and their motto is that a man he should control himself better.

    But you see that is the difference between the liberal and the conservative, is that the conservative recognizes that There are a time and place for everything, but the liberal, not the Democrat, does not (do as thou wilt). So a Babylonian will french kiss on a float wearing a diaper and dildo and doesn’t seem to understand or respect that doing stuff like that is not something that little children should see (yet, there are Liberal parents who will take their children to Pride Parade without a second thought). Please don’t confuse me with Republican, because Republicans and Liberals are the same, just the farthest sides of the field (left and right).

    Katy Perry released a song called, I Kissed A Girl And Liked It, so now a bunch if fifteen-year-olds that were ten at the time have kissed a girl and like it, are now bisexual or just plain confused (not born that way or molested into that way). So as a member of Babylon, Katy Perry did her job well.

    Oh, I might add that the lesbian police chief who had been in command here in Columbus, Ohio was forced to resign after she had been exposed for gender discrimination, which what I would expect from a woman who hates men (or has serious mental and emotional issues with them). The same kind of thing happened at the MicroCenter here as well. One day there were str8 people working there, and the next nothing but gays and lesbians. I had to stop going to MicroCenter, especially with muscle shirts, because the gay dudes kept coming on to me. I noticed all of the clerks had rainbow bracelets and I figured that was an ensign to let other gay dudes know the deal, but I had nare a rainbow bracelet on. The final straw for me was when a clerk had an obvious erection and used it to close the cash register with. You see, once again all or nothing from the LGBT community! This isn’t just one incident that demonstrates the level of emotional and mental damage within the LGBT community. Love and lust are two different boats.

    Now, the responses to my comment are going to both validate and prove the point I was trying to make.

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